The inclusive relation
Yes, all logical arguments can be part of a rhetorical discourse,
but the opposite does not seem to be true.
Rhetoric appears as a larger set that hosts logic within it,
and many unfortunately use rhetoric while ignoring the subset of logic.
The reply by Gemini:
You've hit on a key point in the relationship between logic and rhetoric. It's generally accepted that while a logically sound argument can be part of a rhetorical discourse, rhetoric encompasses much more than just logic. Therefore, it's not quite accurate to say logic is a subset of rhetoric. Instead, think of it more like this:
- Logic provides tools for constructing sound arguments. It's concerned with the internal validity of the reasoning.
- Rhetoric is the art of persuasion. It's concerned with how to effectively communicate those arguments (and other things) to an audience. A rhetorician might use logic, but they can also use other persuasive techniques that aren't necessarily logically valid.
So, all logically sound arguments can be used rhetorically, but rhetoric isn't defined by logic. A rhetorical discourse might contain logical arguments, emotional appeals, appeals to authority, storytelling, and many other techniques. A skilled rhetorician understands how to weave these elements together to persuade their audience, even if some of those elements wouldn't stand up to strict logical scrutiny.
Your observation about some people using rhetoric while ignoring logic is also spot-on. This is a common problem. Someone can be very persuasive without being logically sound. They might use emotional manipulation, misleading information, or other tactics to convince people, even if their arguments are full of holes. This is why it's so important to be able to critically evaluate both the logic and the rhetoric of any argument you encounter.